Rex Ridenoure. Picture credit score: Rex Ridenoure.
Most individuals have most likely by no means heard the identify Rex Ridenoure, however chances are high they’ve seen his work. The corporate he co-founded, Ecliptic Enterprises Company, helped to pioneer the location of cameras on launch automobiles and satellites that beam down dwell in-flight video footage. However, Ecliptic – which was acquired by the Spanish firm, ARQUIMEA, in July – is about much more than cameras.
Parabolic Arc sat down with Ridenoure through the Small Satellite tv for pc Convention in Utah this August to debate his firm, his profession, and what he’s been doing since stepping down as CEO. This interview has been edited for readability and size.
Parabolic Arc: Can you are taking me by way of your early years?
Ridenoure: Mainly, I got here out to California after undergrad college in Iowa to work at Hughes Area and Communications, as a result of they have been like the perfect spacecraft firm on the planet again then, and really dominant. And I acquired a Hughes Fellowship, which pays in your grasp’s diploma. So, I went to Caltech for grad college, acquired a grasp’s, saved working at Hughes for a couple of yr and a half, after which acquired a chance I couldn’t go up, which was to go as much as Lockheed in Sunnyvale and practice to be an astronaut that will service the Hubble Area Telescope.
Parabolic Arc: No method.
I acquired up there nearly precisely a yr earlier than the shuttle launched. They have been coaching an older man that was in his mid-40s, who had plenty of spacesuit background and had skilled astronauts. They needed a youthful man in his 20s for continuity. And so, we have been each coaching in spacesuits down at NASA Marshall doing impartial buoyancy exams on a full-scale mockup of the telescope. After which the shuttle launched a yr after I acquired there. After which it grew to become very clear quickly after that that nobody was ever going to the touch that besides NASA astronauts.
Parabolic Arc: Oh, actually?
Ridenoure: Yeah, it was a fairly political factor, however it made sense. However earlier than that, NASA was saying, any spacecraft we’re going to see repeatedly, the corporate that constructed it ought to have its personal payload specialists.
Parabolic Arc: Proper.
Ridenoure: That was fairly widespread, proper? However anyway, it grew to become clear that that was by no means going to occur. And the telescope mission itself was slipping each month that I used to be there. So the launch date was on the market someplace.
So, I went again to Hughes, went again on the identical program I left from, and ended up working for 3 and a half years on 4 launches and 4 missions, all with the identical spacecraft design. And was nice. However the folks at Hughes … these senior guys that had been across the block a number of instances, they usually stated probably the most enjoyable they ever had was engaged on small spacecraft originally of the Area Race. And so they had plenty of the reason why. And that every one appealed to me.
So, at some point I’m within the Hughes library checking the area information. And I noticed this image of a small satellite tv for pc up right here at Utah State College that was designed for an ejection out of a Getaway Particular on the Shuttle. And one of many guys within the image was a man that was form of mentoring me, who I had met in faculty who was an government up right here in Thiokol.
I known as him and I stated, ‘Hey, what’s this occurring with this small satellite tv for pc in Utah? What’s that every one about?’ He stated, ‘Oh, we’re spinning off an organization from the campus right here, Utah State College. We’re going to start out a small satellite tv for pc firm. It was a mixture of Utah State College, Weaver State College, and Thiokol. And so they known as it Northern Utah Satellite tv for pc, or NUSat. I believe they have been the second satellite tv for pc deployed out of the shuttle from a Getaway Particular.
And so they have been going to spin an organization out known as Globesat right here in Logan. And he stated, actually, he says, we’re in search of folks such as you, younger techniques engineers who need to work on spacecraft. So, he flew me up for an interview and I made a decision to take the job. And I got here up right here, December ’85. And proper after Christmas, I used to be supposed to start out working for Globesat. After which a month after I acquired right here, the shuttle Challenger blew up. So, the entire marketing strategy acquired very unsure.
I waited round for an additional eight months ready to see how lengthy the shuttle was going to be down. And it appeared prefer it was going to be years. And about that point, an excellent pal of mine who labored at JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory] known as and stated that they had a extremely attention-grabbing place opening up on Voyager, going to Neptune. As a result of Voyager glided by Uranus, I believe nearly the identical week that Challenger blew up. So, it nearly didn’t get seen, I believe it was inside per week or so. However the Challenger information swamped all the pieces else. I interviewed for the job at JPL and I acquired employed for that. I ended up at JPL for eleven years.
Parabolic Arc: After which?
Ridenoure: It grew to become very clear to me within the mid ‘90s that every one the elements have been within the trade to place collectively small spacecraft that might do helpful issues on the Moon and near-Earth asteroids at the very least, perhaps even Mars, proper? And I felt like JPL and APL [Applied Physics Laboratory] and NASA normally wanted a few of that competitors to get some innovation going, proper?
So, in a single week once I was at JPL in 1997, two totally different calls got here in from two totally different non-public teams that stated they needed to place collectively a privately developed lunar mission, they usually needed, you already know, type of be a part of the crew, however not the lead. And a few of the managers at JPL knew that I used to be on this, in order that they let me subject the calls, principally, and that satisfied me that it was truly taking place. There’s going to be some non-public and business work to do out in cislunar area. So, I made a decision to go away the lab and attempt to pursue that.
Parabolic Arc: And that’s once you acquired into BlastOff!?
Ridenoure: No. BlastOff! was the third firm I used to be in. The primary was Microcosm, which was an area mission engineering agency. They didn’t truly construct spacecraft or something, however they have been excellent at analyzing area missions and doing all of the numbers. And a kind of business research I used to be capable of take to Microcosm, we helped them research the mission idea.
However, six months into my work at Microcosm, a brand new firm popped out of the woodwork from nowhere named Area Growth Company, SpaceDev. The CEO and founder was Jim Benson, who had made a small fortune within the software program enterprise, however he was very enthusiastic about doing business missions to the moon and asteroids and Mars. It’s precisely what I needed to do.
So, a yr after I left JPL, I left Microcosm and went to SpaceDev, and we have been placing collectively business missions to asteroids after which business missions to the Moon. We need to research from JPL to take a look at business missions to Mars. And it was all the correct concept, however about 20 years forward of its time. The market simply wasn’t fairly prepared for that.
They needed to pivot to remain alive, they usually ended up taking some work doing low Earth orbiting NASA missions, which isn’t what I used to be fascinated with. So, I used to be there a yr and a half, and simply concerning the time I needed to go away, I acquired phrase of this new firm in Pasadena known as BlastOff! Company, which was utterly stealth. Nobody knew about it. And certainly one of my finest mates within the area biz was the primary worker, so I actually needed to listen to extra. So, I went up and talked to him concerning the mission, and he launched me to the founder who was going to fund it. And I used to be quickly after employed because the second worker of BlastOff!
Parabolic Arc: Inform me about BlastOff!
Ridenoure: Throughout the yr 2000, a crew was constructed up in Pasadena, California, to place collectively an uncrewed lunar lander that will land roughly a mile or two from an Apollo website. After which journey to the Apollo website, and to start with, confirm that we truly did land on the Moon. As a result of again then, there have been some documentaries floating round on the TV stations that claimed we didn’t. After which secondarily, return a wealthy suite of pictures and video again to Earth, which might be monetized by the funding supply for the mission, which was a dot.com Web entrepreneur.
So, primarily based on a gathering that I had had once I was at SpaceDev, we had been launched to a billionaire who was within the concept of transferring business practices past geosynchronous orbit out into cis-lunar area and past. I hadn’t seen this man. I solely met him as soon as, however I hadn’t seen him in a yr and a half.
All of us on the crew at BlastOff! have been inspired to seek out some supply of funding, whether or not it was a person or an organization or no matter. He was the one one I knew. So, I known as him out of the blue, instructed him we had this attention-grabbing concept, a extremely good crew, and that we have been principally in search of funding, and he was fairly . So, he signed a nondisclosure settlement straight away, and we instructed him what we have been making an attempt to do. We had two conferences with him earlier than the tip of 2000 that have been going properly.
Parabolic Arc: So who’s the billionaire?
Ridenoure: His identify is Peter Sperling. His father, again within the early ’70s, began the College of Phoenix as the primary for revenue college.
He acquired very excited and realized that we had, as he put it, 50 world-class rocket scientists with nothing to do. And we stated, yeah, we’re all out of labor. He needed to know if we have been pondering of constant as some form of an organization. And we stated, yeah, we had a number of concepts. He stated, I can’t afford to fund 50 folks in a startup. However, he instructed perhaps a dozen or so.
And it caught us off guard, frankly. And so he stated, have you ever guys considered what you’d love to do? And we stated, properly, a bit bit, however we requested him what he wish to do if he was going to fund an organization, what would you wish to see? And he gave us a really crisp set of constraints. And to start with, he stated, I need to hear a couple of product-oriented area firm, not an engineering providers firm, or any type of providers merchandise. He stated, construct one thing for a greenback and promote it for $2. That’s what I need to hear.
After which the actually vibrant factor he stated was, I need you to inform me in a single sentence that my grandmother will perceive. What are you going to do? He stated, no rocket science, no mumbo jumbo, no engineering converse – quite simple. After which he stated, when you outline that broad space of merchandise, no matter it’s, I need you to inform me what the primary product in that class is that you simply’re going to construct. After which I need to see a letter from one other CEO of one other firm that claims if we construct it, they’ll purchase one.
After which lastly he stated, I’m not likely an engineer. You guys are the engineers, however I’m a monetary man, and I need to just remember to present me that you’ve got a monetary man in your crew that speaks earnings statements, steadiness sheets, and money move, as a result of that’s what I actually perceive.
Parabolic Arc: Proper.
Ridenoure: So, then he added on a number of different issues. He stated he would write a test for a sure sum of money, and to me, it simply appeared like he pulled it out of the air. And I stated, the place did you get that quantity? As a result of we hadn’t even instructed him what we’re going to do but. And it turned out he had a take care of his spouse, who was an inside decorator by coaching and expertise. They’d a number of houses in three states. And he had a take care of his spouse that she may spend a sure sum of money yearly on the homes with out him questioning her. And in return, he acquired to spend the identical sum of money on certainly one of his pet tasks with out being questioned by her.
Parabolic Arc: OK.
Ridenoure: In order that was the deal. It was early 2001. He stated, I’ve not determined how I’m going to spend my allocation for the yr. So, you guys simply would possibly get it if the concept is sweet sufficient. … We acquired a maintain of the those that we understood have been fascinated with persevering with as an organization, maybe. And we knew we may solely get about twelve perhaps. However we had about 35 those that have been fascinated with doing one thing.
A number of days later, about half these folks ended up in my front room in Pasadena, 17 or 18 folks. And we caucused some extra, and we got here up with a number of extra concepts and at last settled on going again to the man. That is like three weeks after our assembly with him. We went again to the workplace he had in Santa Barbara, and we stated we needed to pursue onboard video for rockets and spacecraft and the information techniques to get that video again to the Earth.
The rationale we threw that out is as a result of principally what we have been doing at BlastOff! was placing plenty of video and imaging cameras on a lunar lander. Digital cameras have been simply coming in the marketplace. They have been very costly, however you could possibly get them at Greatest Purchase. So, we had taken a number of digital cameras constructed by Kodak at BlastOff!, ripped all of them aside, repackaged them, and we have been capable of get them to go the stringent environmental check regimes that the Mars cameras have been going by way of for lots of the JPL Mars missions.
So, we stated, we expect we are able to get business cameras, ruggedize them for area, after which put them on rockets and spacecraft. And he beloved the concept. So he agreed to start out an organization. And three weeks later we had an workplace in Pasadena and opened up. So, the entire course of took six weeks.
Parabolic Arc: How did you give you the identify Ecliptic?
Ridenoure: After I was first employed into JPL, for the primary 4 years I used to be a contractor. So, I had my very own enterprise, and I had my very own emblem and all the pieces. And that was known as Ecliptic Astronautics. And I threw that out. I stated, hey, if you wish to use the identify, we are able to use that identify. And we thought it made sense as a result of our funding supply basically was fascinated with making use of business enterprise practices to deep area, principally. And we satisfied him that for the following hundred years, if there may be enterprise in area, it’s all going to be within the ecliptic aircraft.
So, we acquired this workplace in Pasadena…We get a name from the one different firm we knew that was doing that in Colorado. And their CTO was finest man at our CTO’s marriage ceremony and vice versa. They have been finest mates. And that firm had simply had their strategic planning assembly for 2001 as a result of it’s like March. And so they determined they have been going to pivot the corporate a bit bit they usually needed to eliminate the product line that that they had developed known as rocket cam. They’d already tried to trademark that identify, RocketCam. They’d, I consider, 17 launches already on Delta II and Atlas rockets. They’d shipped about six or seven flight ship units to the shuttle program, however none had been launched. And so they additionally had shipped a pair to Titan IV, however they needed to pivot into extra radio and RF associated merchandise. So, they stated principally they heard from their pal, our CTO, that we have been beginning this firm and would we like to purchase the product line from them.
And we principally stated, wow, what luck. 5 weeks after we opened the doorways, we owned the one product line like that on this planet, principally. And we just about owned the market as a result of nobody else was doing it both. So the day after we signed the deal was the primary launch of the following launch within the line of RocketCam launches. In order that was, I believe it was a Mars mission. And we did get the letter from one other CEO that stated if we construct one thing, he’ll purchase it. And so we acquired contracts nearly instantly, plus we acquired all the shoppers and the longer term enterprise from the shoppers the opposite firm had.
Parabolic Arc: That’s very fortunate.
Ridenoure: Yeah, very fortunate. So luck is part of the story, for positive. The startup section of the corporate was extraordinarily clean, a lot smoother than I’ve ever heard about.
We form of let our guard down close to the tip of the yr in 2001 as a result of it appeared really easy. We truly didn’t market that a lot. And that caught up with us roughly a couple of yr after we began and a few pretty important contracts that we simply assumed we have been going to get didn’t materialize. And so we went from pondering we have been going to rent folks to pondering we’re going to have to put a bunch of individuals off proper, all in like one week. And so we ended up having to put off, I believe, 5 out of the eleven.
And proper about that point, additionally, due to a bit little bit of luck and timing, we have been capable of get Mike Griffin to affix our board, as a result of we had fashioned the board to be a five-person board. He was popping out of Orbital Sciences. And was type of a free agent advisor and a number of other of us on the crew had had interactions with him and he actually favored what we have been doing. I believe he was one of many key members of our impartial evaluation board at BlastOff!, so he was fairly conversant in the crew and {our capability} and so he gladly joined our board and he helped us for 2 years till he acquired the job of working the area division at APL. However he type of helped us navigate by way of that dip a yr after we began the place we may have gone out of enterprise.
However what we determined to do throughout that downturn was the RocketCam merchandise from the corporate in Colorado, which was known as CrossLink Included, their product line was strictly analog video cameras and energy provides and transmitters, however it was all analog, and we knew the trade was going extra towards digital for each the cameras and the transmissions. So, we determined to develop a digital model of the RocketCam product line. And in order that required us to develop some model new avionics that have been all digital.
And we used the identical cameras that CrossLink had as a result of they’re excellent, they’d by no means failed. And we digitized the output of these cameras, which was an analog sign, after which from then on it was all digital. And proper in the midst of that downturn, we made the primary sale to a spacecraft mission. After which from then on it was all rockets and spacecraft for like the following ten years. And the avionics acquired higher and higher. And we ultimately acquired into differing types of cameras and sensors.
Parabolic Arc: What was probably the most thrilling mission you could bear in mind?
Ridenoure: We have been on the rocket for the Spirit and Alternative launches [to Mars], and particularly the Spirit launch.
And NASA needed a greater sign for that actually excessive profile Mars launch. So nearly the perfect video we ever acquired from a rocket launch was from Spirit, the Delta II launch of Spirit. It was actually crystal clear. However it was thrilling to be on these launches. We acquired the job of doing all of the movies for the Ansari XPRIZE flights, together with the check flights.
For the readers of your article that bear in mind seeing the XPrize flights, all that video was our system. We had onboard, outdoors, and inside video on each the Spaceship One and the provider plane. That was fairly cool. And we have been on the launch of Mars Curiosity and we captured the separation of the spacecraft from the rocket on the way in which to Mars. A bit of bit later in 2009, we have been on LCROSS going to the Moon.
Parabolic Arc: Proper.
Ridenoure: One of many 9 devices was our video digicam, however we managed all of the payload on that. So, we managed all the opposite sensors, all of the science sensors, and we processed all the information for transmission again to the Earth. That was thrilling. After which, in fact, when the Columbia broke up in 2003, we had a prototype of a video system on the exterior tank of the shuttle a few missions earlier than that launch, there wasn’t any on the Columbia mission, however after the mission, NASA determined they’re going to place video throughout that automobile for future launches. So, we acquired orders for 3 totally different video techniques, one on the exterior tank and one every on the stable rocket boosters. After which on the return to flight launch, which was a few years after Columbia broke up, they launched the shuttle and an enormous piece of froth fell off one thing like 70 seconds into the flight.
And so they had about 100 cameras from the bottom, from the air, and on board wanting on the launch. And ours on the exterior tank was the one one which caught the froth falling off, which was instrumental in determining what occurred, as a result of we knew precisely when it fell off. So, the shuttle program stood down for an additional entire yr till they mounted that downside. And from then on, we have been on each shuttle till the tip of the collection.
Parabolic Arc: How a lot did the corporate broaden past the cameras over time? Or was that the principle factor you centered on?
Ridenoure: Round 2009 or so, the CubeSat kind issue was approaching robust, and due to Moore’s Regulation, primarily, we have been in a great place to shrink all our avionics. And so, we simply determined to shrink the electronics all the way down to CubeSat kind issue, principally. And we transformed the avionics bins to extra of what we name a slice-based structure. So once you put all of them collectively, these slices, the avionics field type of seems like a loaf of bread. And with every slice of bread, so to talk, doing sure features for the entire field, and that actually took off. Gross sales of that structure took off very well as a result of it was smaller and much more succesful than the earlier variations. So, we began getting them placed on a number of rockets and spacecraft, and particularly spacecraft.
And about that very same time, round 2009 or 10, extra rivals entered the market. So, we didn’t actually personal the market anymore. Which was one purpose we determined to shift over a bit extra to the avionics facet of issues moderately than the video cameras. It’s nonetheless an issue after 22 years that plenty of people assume we’re a digicam firm, however about 90 % of the enterprise is the avionics.
Parabolic Arc: Oh, actually?
Ridenoure: Clients started to understand that our avionics field may do much more than simply management video cameras. So, we’d be requested, hey, are you able to management this different digicam we have now? It’s not yours, however are you able to management it? Yeah, positive, we are able to do this. Are you able to management this mechanical factor? Yeah, we are able to do this. Are you able to energy these gadgets on this spacecraft? Yeah, we are able to do this. Can we route this telemetry by way of the field as a substitute of the way in which we usually do it? Yeah, we are able to do this. So, we began utilizing avionics as extra of an experiment or system controller and sequencer. And we acquired excellent at sequencing and dealing with information, as a result of when video cameras activate, they create huge quantities of information in comparison with the conventional information move from, like, a spacecraft or rocket. Orders of magnitude extra information. So, we acquired actually good at manipulating the information, compressing it, formatting it, storing it, forwarding it, replaying it, erasing it, that type of stuff. Throughout the 2010 to 2020 timeframe, many, many extra functions opened up for that avionics.
So, by the tip of 2020, say, we have been deploying photo voltaic arrays, we have been deploying spacecraft off rockets, activating these gadgets. We have been controlling whole experiments on the area station, mechanical, electrical, offering video of the experiment. Controlling science devices, controlling transferring elements on devices, all that form of stuff. And that’s nonetheless a really vibrant enterprise.
Parabolic Arc: Was that once you determined to step again as CEO? When was that?
Ridenoure: Nicely, we have been sustaining ourselves fairly properly all the way in which from startup by way of 2018 or so. We had a few close to misses the place we nearly died. We recovered, however we weren’t actually rising in any important method.
I simply didn’t have any vibrant concepts, however my enterprise growth man who got here on in late 2006 had been doing that job for 12 years, I’m speaking about 2018 or so. And he had a fairly shut relationship with a few of our greatest clients, and type of knew the place they needed issues to go, and he had some concepts of his personal on what we may do to develop. And so, he type of pleaded with me to let’s get a few of these bolder issues going. And I personally thought they have been an excessive amount of for our little crew to do.
I may inform he was getting a bit irritated and type of had a sense that if we didn’t do one thing, he would perhaps depart. And I couldn’t afford to have him depart, however I additionally didn’t need to attempt to implement these tasks myself and be accountable as CEO. So, I principally requested him if he’d like my job and he might be CEO after which he may resolve to do it and he completely needed that job.
Parabolic Arc: Who’s he?
Ridenoure: Mike Alvarez. He has been the CEO since 2018. Mainly, he and I have been the one two within the firm doing enterprise growth anyway. And so, he grew to become CEO so he may type of have the choice authority and he continued to do enterprise growth, particularly with our greatest clients as a result of he had identified these folks for 10 years. And I form of helped him by cultivating a few of the different second-tier clients. And I held on as an worker at Ecliptic for 2 extra years to assist Mike, and likewise simply to type of be certain he may take over, you already know, type of have a transition there. After which COVID kicked in in early 2020, however largely on account of his efforts in 2020, by the tip of the yr, he had damaged our earlier gross sales file by greater than an element of two.
It was nearly all his doing. I made a decision, boy, if there’s any time to step down from the corporate, would possibly as properly do it after they’re having their finest yr ever. Plus, I had gotten used to working remotely with COVID and I actually favored that method of working. And so on the finish of 2020, I stepped down as an worker, however I stayed on the board.
Parabolic Arc: OK.
Ridenoure: And our unique CFO, this man that Peter Sperling stated we have now to have on our crew, he did the identical factor two years earlier than that, so he was nonetheless on the board however not an worker anymore. And so, I grew to become a advisor on the finish of 2020 and did a few odd jobs by way of March or so of 2021. After which I acquired invited to affix the Area Portfolio group at DUI, Protection Innovation Unit. And that was a halftime job, and I believed that was a pleasant job to have as a result of it type of is a base half time proper, versus all the time hustling for no matter work I may get. At the very least I had that job, and it was an attention-grabbing job.
Parabolic Arc: What do you do there?
Ridenoure: Protection Innovation Unit is correct on the prime of the Protection Division reporting to the Secretary of Protection now, however I don’t know something concerning the DoD, actually. I by no means have, by no means labored in that space. However they needed me to due to my longtime familiarity with this small satellite tv for pc crowd and all of the business area firms. I’ve been embedded in that surroundings since principally 1997.
They thought it was a plus that I’d run my very own firm and knew how CEOs assume, knew a bit bit concerning the funding angle on startups and that form of factor. And since mid ‘90s, I’ve been an advocate of business enterprise, transferring out past geosynchronous orbit, all the way in which to the moon and past. And I’ve labored in a number of firms making an attempt to do this. And that’s a spotlight of the DIU Area Portfolio is cultivating an ecosystem on the market, a business ecosystem.
Parabolic Arc: So, you go to conferences like this, you meet with firms, you type of see what’s occurring?
Ridenoure: I am going on-site visits with a few of the different groups in DIU. I pay attention to a lot of the calls the place it’s a brand new firm that desires to introduce themselves to DIU. I’m on a lot of these calls. Typically we discuss to enterprise capitalists which can be funding these business area firms and we attempt to perceive why they did that and what they’re going to do subsequent, and what do they should see to put in writing the following test. We get into some discussions like that.
Often we get coverage papers on the excessive ranges of the federal government from the White Home degree or different elements of the federal government, and we get evaluation copies to evaluation and touch upon earlier than they publish the official model. I’ve performed a few these and principally simply lend my experience and background and insights to the group. I evaluation contract statements of labor earlier than they signal contracts. I get to evaluation a few of these statements of labor and evaluation plenty of proposals that are available in response to diu requires proposals.
Parabolic Arc: So the corporate was acquired this yr.
Ridenoure: Nicely, I can let you know a colleague of mine from JPL days had a great profession at JPL, however then he left perhaps, I don’t know, 5, six, seven years in the past. And he began an incubator firm of kinds in Pasadena to domesticate and incubate and coach startups within the tech subject, together with area, however different issues as properly. And a Spanish agency that was seeking to crew with an organization within the U.S. to broaden their enterprise right here within the U.S. heard about his incubator firm and the providers they supply.
Final fall, this agency, ARCHIMEA, managed to amass 10 % of the corporate. That’s type of like getting engaged. After which that led to extra severe negotiations, which lastly led to them buying Ecliptic in July. In July, simply [a] couple of weeks earlier than this convention.
Parabolic Arc: So are you enthusiastic about what ARCHIMEA brings to Ecliptic?
Ridenoure: Yeah, it looks as if a great mixture. Complementary abilities. They’re ten instances greater than Ecliptic, so much more employees, extra merchandise, extra synergy, extra assets, all that. So, they’ll market Ecliptic merchandise in Europe, which we by no means had, by no means had somebody that was doing that for us. After which we are able to market their merchandise right here, after which they’ll collectively develop new stuff. So it’s a great mixture, I believe.
