NPR’s Scott Detrow speaks with Cristina Costantini, director of the brand new documentary, “Sally,” in regards to the lifetime of astronaut Sally Journey.
SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Sally Journey was the primary American girl to go to house again in 1983. And for some time, it appeared like she was essentially the most well-known individual on Earth and in house. She dominated headlines. She was throughout TV. Youngsters obtained to fulfill her when she made an look on “Sesame Avenue”.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “SESAME STREET”)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (As character) Hey, do you all know who this individual is right here?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILDREN: (As themselves) Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (As character) You do? What’s her title?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILDREN: (As themselves) Sally Journey.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (As character) Yeah. Proper.
DETROW: Sally Journey was additionally a really personal individual, and all that point, everybody was completely at midnight about an important side of her life. It was not till Journey died in 2012 that the world realized about her 27-year-long relationship together with her accomplice, Tam O’Shaughnessy. A brand new documentary from Nationwide Geographic offers us new perception into Journey’s life. Cristina Costantini, the director of “Sally,” is right here with us now. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
CRISTINA COSTANTINI: Thanks. Thanks a lot for having me.
DETROW: What drew you to Sally Journey’s story, and why did you’re feeling like now was the time to inform it?
COSTANTINI: Yeah, you understand, I, like many women, was an enormous fan of Sally as a child. And I believe it was a quite simple equation. It was simply, you understand, if Sally, a woman, can go to house and do massive issues, possibly I can do massive issues, too. And I believe for thus many people younger ladies and women, that was the motivating issue. After which once I realized about Tam O’Shaughnessy, her life accomplice, when she handed away, I believed, oh, my gosh, this story is far more attention-grabbing. You understand, NASA was barely prepared for girls.
DETROW: Yeah.
COSTANTINI: They’d not have been prepared for this. And so this movie is absolutely for anybody who’s ever needed to cover a part of themselves to get the place they wish to be. And I believe in 2025, that is a extra related and extra vital story than ever.
DETROW: Yeah. I had such combined emotions watching this as a result of a big a part of the film is the clips of her speaking in the way in which that I bear in mind watching as a child – simply the way in which that she’s so calm and so cool and so like, oh, yeah, no massive deal. Flying in a House Shuttle, you understand? – and simply the way in which that she was, like, this hypercompetent, inspiring individual. After which, on the similar time, you are actually attending to the truth that, in a manner, a lot of that was a facade, and he or she had this actually painful secret that she felt like she couldn’t share with the world.
COSTANTINI: Yeah, completely.
DETROW: There’s rather a lot to get into, however let’s simply begin with the truth that her accomplice, Tam, is such an enormous a part of this film. Was it exhausting to get her to take part, or was that one thing that she was prepared and open to do?
COSTANTINI: You understand, to Tam’s nice credit score, it is a story that she wished to inform. I believe it was vital for her that the world know the true Sally. Each astronaut from the start of time, you understand, our very early Mercury astronauts, they stood subsequent to their wives. Our Apollo astronauts stood subsequent to their wives, and their wives have been celebrated together with them. And Tam by no means had that. And so in some methods, this movie is correcting a historical past that was by no means advised whereas Sally was alive. However Tam is an unbelievable individual, and we have grown very, very shut in making this movie. And I believe Sally’s fairly exhausting to know, fairly exhausting to learn, and he or she turns into form of the interpreter for us for Sally…
DETROW: Yeah.
COSTANTINI: …And tells a really difficult story of who this individual is.
DETROW: Cristina, I am interested by your expertise making this film since you’re sifting via, on the similar time, all of those interviews and public appearances the place Sally Journey has this fastidiously crafted demeanor.
COSTANTINI: Yeah.
DETROW: And you then’re speaking to individuals like Tam and others in her life who knew the total story. What do you suppose was misplaced to the world by the truth that this vital a part of her wasn’t recognized in actual time?
COSTANTINI: Yeah, you understand, I believe it is an actual tragedy that Sally could not be Sally publicly whereas she was alive, or did not really feel like she may very well be. However Sally additionally was an introvert. She did not like the general public eye. And so I believe you get to fulfill the true Sally a bit on this documentary. She’s actually humorous. She’s fast. A few of my favourite scenes are the scenes of her in press conferences when individuals are asking her if she would weep or if she’s going to be serving espresso to males. I believe she’s actually – she did an unbelievable job of strolling this very fantastic line.
DETROW: You are mentioning this complete different plot level, this massive story for not simply Sally however the different ladies in her astronaut class. You are speaking about this one explicit press convention.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, “SALLY”)
UNIDENTIFIED JOURNALIST: When there was an issue, when there was a humorous glitch or no matter, how did you reply? Do you weep? Do you – what do you do?
SALLY RIDE: Why would not anyone ask Rick these questions?
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERT CRIPPEN: It is – the commander weeps.
(LAUGHTER)
RIDE: I do not suppose that I react any in a different way than anyone else on the crew does.
DETROW: I imply, it is simply so farcical to listen to that. And I used to be – my two ideas have been, one, the way in which that she simply form of smirks, and he or she’s clearly bothered, however she lets it roll off her again, not less than publicly.
COSTANTINI: Yeah.
DETROW: And two, I am simply pondering – I am like, that is, like, the early, mid-’80s. Like, this wasn’t truly that way back. And but this concept of girl doing this was simply, like, unprecedented to those reporters. Like, what was your takeaway from that dynamic?
COSTANTINI: You understand, it actually gave me hope that change can occur and alter occurs. You understand, change has occurred. I imply, they’re a number of the most offensive questions I’ve heard. The late-night reveals have been obsessed together with her. You understand, is she going to convey a purse as much as house? Is it going to match her footwear? And, like, NASA gave her a make-up package and packed her 100 tampons for a six-day journey. So there’s a variety of humor in simply how unusual this was to the – particularly the male world for a girl to be in house.
DETROW: Can I simply comply with up? – ‘trigger I had heard that anecdote of, like, the tampons has some form of assembly. Like, effectively, what number of do you suppose you would want? However within the film, you level out they really gave her a pack of, like, here is 100.
COSTANTINI: Here is 100 tampons. I imply, I like that story a lot. She – yeah, they have been attempting to calculate – and I believe it completely embodies, you understand, NASA engineers, the neatest individuals on the earth. They can not work out the very fundamentals of, like, the feminine menstrual cycle (laughter). And that is what NASA was on the time. Once they arrived, there have been no different ladies they usually have been doing every little thing they may to slot in to this male-dominated setting. They have been dressing like the lads. They have been speaking like the lads. They – each time individuals would ask them what it was prefer to be a feminine astronaut, they might say, I am an astronaut. They’d do every little thing they may to mix in. However then there have been these moments. Like, it turns into so absurd (laughter).
DETROW: Nicely, that makes me marvel. You have got now spent two years studying all of the complexities of her. And I am questioning, on the finish of this undertaking, is there one anecdote or is there one second that actually to you, says, like, that is Sally Journey?
COSTANTINI: That is a terrific query. There’s so many nice tales. I imply, I actually really feel like on the finish of the day, it is a love story. And I believe Sally was very personal and really buttoned-up her complete life. And in her closing weeks of life, she made the choice that Tam ought to inform this story, that Tam must be out within the open, and mainly known as her into her room and mentioned, you inform who it is advisable to inform. You understand, we must be who you suppose we must be to the general public.
And, you understand, I believe that was Sally correcting a few years of forcing Tam to reside within the closet together with her and a really, very courageous act. And, you understand, they ultimately – they exchanged rings. They turned home companions and – legally, and I believe that was very significant for Tam. And it is nice to have the ability to rejoice that Sally, on the finish of her life, got here to that realization that they wanted to be who they have been in public and in personal.
DETROW: That’s Cristina Costantini, director of the documentary “Sally” about astronaut Sally Journey. It’s streaming. Thanks a lot.
COSTANTINI: Thanks a lot. Thanks.
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